ESTD Orlando | Ep 39
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Hello everybody and welcome to the Easiest Said Than Done podcast. And today I have one of our students. Orlando, who's from Spain and not just from Spain. He's a doctor from Spain who's almost done with his learning to code transition because he has really gotten quite good.
He was good when he started. He was definitely not a complete beginner, but I would say he's come a very long way since then and continues to work very hard. So Orlando, welcome to the show. I'm really glad to have you. Thank you for taking the time. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Now, now I know it's nighttime here in Australia, so I'm guessing is what?
Mid-morning your time. Yeah, it's like 11 30, 11 40. Yeah, here in Spain and to Orlando's credit, it's the, the calls that we have for the Inner Circle are sometimes early in the morning, my time before work, and Orlando has to sometimes get up at two in the morning his time just to attend. This guy is seriously committed and that's the kind of person, Brian and I look [00:01:00] forward when we're working people.
So Orlando, congratulations on all the commitment . The right place for us to start. Where I think everybody will wanna know about is the same question I got when I was, you know, 37 lawyer changing like you are a doctor, why are you learning to code? I'm sure you get this all the time. So tell us what you say to this.
INTRO
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Welcome to Easier Said Than Done with me, Zubin Pratap, where I share with you the tens of thousands of dollars worth of self development that I did on my journey from 37 year old lawyer to professional software engineer. The goal of this podcast is to show you how to actually do those things that are easier said than done.
you are a doctor, why are you learning to code? Well, the thing is that at, at first I always like to, the computers, the technology space. And I did my career in, I started a career in physics and then I shifted to medicine. During my career in physics, I worked programming with programming and I [00:02:00] learned, I got my fundamentals there. Yeah. And then at the end of my career I was working in biophysics and I learned about people who made the shift to to medicine.
So I decided, okay, let's go to medicine. The thing is that I like everything. I'm like a. The word, it's like a polymath. I don't know if that's Yeah, yeah. And you, you're basically a curious person, I think curious about everything. Poly. Yeah. Yeah. That, that's a good thing. So how long were you in, in the physics world then?
How long were you in medicine? Just to give us a sense. In the physics world, I was it's been five years. It was five years. And in the medicine space, it's been like 12, 13 years. Wow. Okay. Yep. So, and now you're going into the software engineering space. Yeah. So that's another big jump. I mean, kudos to you.
I think it's fantastic. I think you are living the kind of life that most people would like to do and then we find excuses not to do it. And then when we do it, we are like, okay, you know, it's not easy, right? It's definitely not easy, but it's always worth it. So, speaking of not easy you [00:03:00] know, I think a lot of people think, oh, I can learn to code in two or three months.
What do you think of that idea? I. That's the a wrong idea. I had it because that's the thing that you get in, in the, in the advertisements, in YouTube, everywhere, everything is like become a software developer in three months, in six in six months, in 12 weeks. And also in books you see like learn to program in 30 days.
Right? And it's like, okay, that's not it. You, you have to put on the work, you have to do the effort and the time and right. The results will come. Will come if you have the right plan. Yeah. And this is, this is the thing, like so many people fall for this. I fell for it. You fell for it. And it's not, not anyone's fault if they fail to learn to code because they followed some social media influencer or some random ad, right?
Like, like everything hard in life, you have to have a really good plan. So tell me about, you know, before you joined the program, I know you spent some time trying to teach yourself, what was that period like? Do you [00:04:00] remember what it was like? What were the challenges you faced? What were, tell us about that.
Well, when I shifted to medicine and came here to Spain, I started my, my specialization in public health and preventive medicine. Mm-hmm. And during my master's I saw people, well, like talking about artificial intelligence in, in the med space. That sparked again, like the, the interest in, in the coding space and technology.
Yeah. So I did that shift and it's been hard because you want to make the change, but also you need to have a, an income to live. Correct. So you need to make the space to learn. But if you don't have like the systems and, and the, and the health or seek for the health, it's kind of difficult. It's.
Almost for me, like impossible. Yeah. And and rightly so, because when you're working full-time and , [00:05:00] we generally tell our students, ideally you should have a job full-time. Like that's the right thing to do. Yeah. Right. Because no one actually knows how long this could take. It could take six months.
AUD CTA
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Hey, hope you're enjoying this episode. Listen, I bet you're tired of the social media BS. You're confused and overwhelmed. And all you want is for someone to just show you a clear path to a coding career. Right? We get it. My partner, Brian and I. We changed to code in our thirties and we can help you do it too.
Brian and I have done all sorts of engineering work from startups to Google, and now we've built an exclusive private mentorship program designed to get you from beginner to professional developer, whether you've done a coding bootcamp, you have a computer science degree, or you're starting from zero, it doesn't matter.
We'll build you a step by step and customized plan not just for the coding stuff, but for the entire career change process Look, i'll be honest. The program is not easy and it's not short But if you do the work, you'll get results that [00:06:00] will change your life If that's what you want go to parsity. io slash inner- circle or find any of the links in the show notes And you can schedule a free call with us speak to you there
when you're working full-time and , we generally tell our students, ideally you should have a job full-time. Like that's the right thing to do. Yeah. Right. Because no one actually knows how long this could take. It could take six months.
It could take a year and a half. We don't know. But usually in about a year, most people will do it with the right plan. Not if they don't have the plan. It could take five years. We've had people come to the program after seven years of trying. Right, 10 years of trying. Right.
There's no like a, a, a program or a plan , there's no way like to follow through. You don't have like the, the, the step and you don't know what's the next step you have to take. And then it becomes like, you become guessing. You, you, you get lost and Yeah, you, you're just guessing. Yeah. And it's overwhelming 'cause there's so much information, there's so much competing information.
It's conflicting advice. There's so many things you could do. This [00:07:00] language, that framework, this new tool. And you know, you're kind of guessing the way forward. And so. You are working full time, you don't have a plan. You have very few hours available. Yeah. And in those hours you end up doing all the wrong things and before you know it, six years has gone by.
Right, exactly. So, this is a problem I faced, I know a lot of other people faced. That's why I created this program. So tell me about, in that time when you were learning to code, what do you think the hardest thing that people don't understand about coding is? The hardest thing I think for me was like.
Getting the discipline, the, and making the space for, for learning. Right. Because I didn't have a plan. Hmm. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. What do you mean by making a, a space for it? What, what do you mean by that? Like, you, you don't, if you don't have a plan, you don't have, you do, you don't make the time for, for learning, for making the.
Developing the market. [00:08:00] It's one of the things you see in the course and just getting into the space, like learning about everything Gotcha. Inside the space. Right. I think I understand that. So, I mean, if you only have limited time and you don't know what to do, then it's, it's very hard to make more time to figure out what to do in that time.
Exactly. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. Okay. You, you don't like focus your time on, on the things that are important. Right, just like go one way and then to another. The, the shiny, the shiny object syndrome. Yes. It's very true. That's very true. And I think that that makes it harder to be consistent.
Harder to have discipline. Harder to have focus. Exactly. And then it becomes this negative loop where you're doing rubbish work, working very hard on the wrong things for a long time. More time has gone by and you know, you feel like you're further behind and it's very overwhelming. That's true. I, I've definitely.
And another thing is that what, what I feel like also happened, it's like you like go to the same subject because you're [00:09:00] comfortable there and like you I don't know what's the, like the word, like you stay in your comfort zone because it's familiar to stay in your comfort zone and just like it slip in the same place like right, like the wheels in a car when they get stuck in mud.
Right? Yep. So you're stuck in the same place. You're doing the same thing because you don't know what else to do. But doing the same thing makes you feel like you're making some progress. Exactly. At least you're trying and you're not making progress. But it's familiar. It's not too scary 'cause you've done it.
If you done. That's very true. And and so now, now that we've made your custom plan, you, you know, you are well into executing, how do you feel about the progress you've made since you've been in the plan compared to the years before that it's been night and day because during the, the, the first phase of the program, the,
the mindset, like the mindset and mentality. Yeah, that completely changes. Changes your focus. That's a a thing. You have to work really, really hard on.
It's so funny is everybody says that, right? And it never ceases to amaze me. It's because everybody comes into the program saying, we [00:10:00] wanna learn to code. Exactly. But 100% of the students say we couldn't have done it without spending the first six, eight weeks on mindset like you made us do. So to help people understand that, 'cause most people are like, I don't need to work on my psychology.
And I'm like, I don't know. You tell them. Why is that so important? It's important because you need to know what are your goals? You need to know what is that, what are the things that move you, what are the things that like block, the what's word that block you, that get in your way that are obstacles that get in your way?
The obstacles that, that's the thing. The obstacles that, and the potholes in the road. Mm-hmm. So you know how to navigate them. Right. It's very important to know that, that kind of stuff. And so here's a question. I know the answer, but I I, I'd like you to say it so that those who are listening can really understand those who are in your shoes.
Why is it that it doesn't matter if you have even the right courses and stuff to learn from the right material to study the coding from? Why is that pointless if you don't have the [00:11:00] right psychology? Why is psychology more important sometimes than the thing you're learning? Because if you don't have the right psychology and you don't have the right mindset and, and the goals that will move you forward, you won't put in the work you put, you won't put in the effort.
Correct. You won't do it and you won't do it consistently over time. Exactly. That's the thing. Even if you have the perfect recipe, you won't cook the dish Exactly because you, you don't know how to, to work through the recipe. You don't know how to. You get distracted. Distracted by other things.
Yeah. Yeah. And isn't it funny , you know, when we are doing the time audits and all the careful analysis we do for the first two months, right? We spend so much time in this stuff. Isn't it amazing the kind of things you learn about yourself, the habits, how, how much time we lose?
Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Because you get to know deeply yourself, and also what I really liked about the course was. I found like a, a purpose and know why am I doing [00:12:00] this what I'm taking this risk. Right? That's a, that's really important. 'cause if you don't know that you, you run the risk of giving up or getting afraid very early.
And now that we have your goals, we have your purpose, we have your time schedules, and now you have your coding plan. How do you feel about learning to code? Is it easier this time because all these things are there compared to what it was when you were doing it on your own?
Are you making more progress faster? It's, it's easier and like, at least when you are making the time, at least if, if you at least work one hour a day, you think like you're making some progress in, in the, in the career. Changing my case. And you are seeing, are you finding that it's easier that you don't have to say, oh, what do I do today?
What do I do next week? You know exactly what you need to do. No, I know what I have to do. Put in the work learn about coding and start developing my. The The market. And the The market. Correct. And developing the opportunities, relationships with other people. Yeah, [00:13:00] correct. So that you can get more opportunities.
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And developing the opportunities, relationships with other people. Yeah, correct. So that you can get more opportunities.
Exactly. And yes, I know some people say, oh, Zubin is so tough on us, and you, you know, and all the rest of that. But I keep you guys accountable for a reason because it's hard to do on our own. Right. You need someone that keeps you [00:14:00] accountable. That's very important. Also, of course, we all do. I, I, I do too.
You have to keep accountable. You have to keep yourself accountable. But sometimes a hand a hand can help you. Oh, absolutely. We all need somebody else because we, we can't always have perfect strength, perfect energy, perfect focus, perfect, you know, understanding. And sometimes it just helps to be able to say, Hey, this is the situation I've got.
Like you said, you've got these two opportunities that, you know, your friend sent you and you'd like to discuss them with me and we do that next week. Yeah. Sometimes you just need to know someone. Hey, you are, you are on the inside. You have the experience. You've, you've climbed this mountain, you've done certain things.
I've never done exactly that. Can you share with me a perspective, like, it's so helpful to have that I have mentors even today, right. For all sorts of things, from my personal life to my professional life, right? It's so important. it really helps. Yeah. A, a, a, a good mentoring. I like, like, it's like a coach.
It's like if you're a. A lead athlete, he needs a coach. He doesn't do the work [00:15:00] by himself. He needs people who help him progress in his correct. Has had a coach. Every single one. Right. And they're the heads of their businesses.
Right. We are talking about pretty big businesses and stuff, and they still have coaches 'cause everybody needs to get better at something. Correct. You know, and they have things that they need to get better. So that, that's really good. Now, I know, you know, this is not easy for you because you're making a second career change in some senses, but you've got all the commitment.
What are you most excited about Orlando, when you think about the next five to 10 years, right? Because this is gonna happen any time now. What is the most exciting thing for you in this journey? I. It, the, this journey has like brought up hope. Like I'm like looking forward to the future. Yeah. Because I know that I can reach my goals and I have like this plan ready, just simply take one step and, and the next step and I know I will reach my, my, my goal of making a career change and.
The [00:16:00] possibilities are like enormous I, the, the freedom, the economical aspect also. Sure, sure. Yeah. That's wonderful. And, and I think that's why most people want to change their career. It's most people, most people have a better life. Exactly. Exactly. But it's so scary because it feels risky, right? Yeah.
It feels risky, but. One thing is that if you're making progress, that like lights up something inside you, it, it keeps motivated. Yeah. It keeps you motivated. Correct. Totally true. Totally true. And this is the thing why I think people, they tend to give up. Most people I've noticed give up because they don't know what to do and that demotivates them, but they think it's because they're not smart enough.
The world is against them. But actually what's happening is they don't know what to do. Exactly. And when you don't know what to do, the rational thing, the sensible, smart thing is to quit. 'cause you can't just guess your way everywhere. That's not gonna work, right? [00:17:00] But everybody who comes in the program the moment or give them the plan, they all feel like you.
They're like, okay, now I have a purpose. I have a mission. I know what to do. The stress sort of goes away. It's not easy. It takes a lot of discipline and commitment, but the doubt starts to slowly go away. Because it becomes clearer and clearer. The image, the vision becomes clearer and clearer as you move towards it.
'cause you move Yes. You have clarity. Clarity. That's exactly, exactly, exactly. Cool man. Look, that, that's really, I'm super excited and I know, you know, everybody enjoys reading, you know, your, your progress and hearing about your progress and all the rest of that. But here's the thing, Orlando, there are.
So many people out there, there's so many people out there who wish they could code even at your level. And you're pretty good now and you're gonna get even better before we get you ready for the interviews and stuff, but you know, there are people out there who believe that they have, maybe they believe they're not smart enough.
Maybe they believe they don't have enough time. Maybe they do and some that could be true for some people. But in your experience, having met a few people in the [00:18:00] program and, done your own audits and stuff. What do you say to people about these excuses? What, what advice would you give them now that you understand what we've done in the program together?
I will tell them that they're not alone. Mm-hmm. There's a bunch of people that, that I've met in the course that have, we have the same problems, we have the same fears, we have the same things that move us because the things that move me are my family. Myself and maybe, maybe helping others, wanting to help others.
And that's what you see with other people. So what I will tell them is to find people like them. Yeah. Find if they can help. Find a coach. Yeah. That is a great opportunity to, that will help you make progress and when you start making progress. It's like a, like a flywheel. You, you start like moving along and you get super excited.
There's an old [00:19:00] saying, right? Success begets success, which means, you know, success produces more success. It's true. It gets that momentum going and that flywheel going exactly to say. So, you know, one last question for you, man. And, and you know, it's, it's, it's, I'm gonna say a sentence and I'm gonna leave the blank at the end and you fill it up with whatever you want.
Okay. Anybody can code, but fill in the blanks. But first of all, do you believe that? Yeah. Do you believe that? Yeah, absolutely. You do. Okay, everyone, I know that you a way everyone can do anything. They just have to put in the time, the effort, effort, there's the mindset coming through.
That's it. And find, find the, the correct help. Know who can help you because if it's not the right people, they won't they won't give you the right help get results. So, okay, so now that we know that you actually believe that statement, now it's probably easier for you to fill in the blank. So anybody can code, but what would you say,
but, if [00:20:00] they don't do the right things, they they won't make any progress if they don't have the correct plan, if they don't. It's about effort. I think it's about, and it's also at debate, the base, like having, it's also about like, I think like having recipe, like anybody can make Paella, right?
Yeah. But you need the recipe and you need the right, the right tools. Ingredients, correct. And ingredients. The tools. All the right tools. So you know, there, there's a and a helping hand. And a helping hand that helps, especially with Paella Pans, because, because they're huge in iron. Yeah. And they were very, they're very good in here.
Oh yeah, I know Spain, or they're Oh, in Madrid, some of the best Paella ever had actually. Yeah, it was Madrid and, and I had some really good ones, but, you know, so here's the thing, right? So my coach, she once told me she said, success is very easy.
You just had to do the right thing at the right time, in the right way. Yeah. And I'm like, great, that's really easy. But that's actually true, right? It's, it's the truth, you [00:21:00] know? Yeah. It's completely true. But you, you have to be ready for when success, when success come. Oh, yeah. But if you don't prepare yourself, you won't, you won't see it happening.
Interesting. Okay. It may come by, but you won't be ready to see it. Interesting. So do you, is there an example from your own life that you think of when you're talking about this? Or where is this coming from? This is interesting. I agree with you totally. May, maybe so if you're not ready for grabbing success or for. For the opportunities that may come.
You won't, you won't grab them. Yeah. Yeah. And this is true, whether it's work or even relationships. Exactly. You may make the right person but not be ready and let's success pass you by you could get the right job opportunities, the opportunity to move to another country, and you just don't realize it.
I, I totally agree. A lot of it is a false, our false beliefs and expectations. Man, that was super, super interesting. I really enjoyed talking to you. Thanks for sharing your experience. Thank you for sharing your insights, your advice for people. I [00:22:00] really appreciate it. I'll put, you know, links to your, to your contact details in your LinkedIn and stuff in the show notes.
But thank you so much for taking the time in the middle of your morning. I really appreciate it. And I will see you next time, Orlando. Thanks for inviting me, so see you next time. Of course. Bye. See you next time. Bye.
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