ESTD Dean
===
[00:00:00] hello everybody. Welcome to the Easier Said and Done podcast, and today I'm very excited to have Dean Dean Fox on the show with us. Dean's one of the alumni from the inner Circle coding program. He's sort of finished the intensive phase and is in the execution phase, is actually working in a professional environment right now.
INTRO
---
Welcome to Easier Said Than Done with me, Zubin Pratap, where I share with you the tens of thousands of dollars worth of self development that I did on my journey from 37 year old lawyer to professional software engineer. The goal of this podcast is to show you how to actually do those things that are easier said than done.
We're gonna talk about that. And what I really admire about Dean is this guy went through setback after setback still continues to have big challenges. I'd say. I'd personally say, you know, more than it's his fair share really when you think about it. But he's such a battler and that's why I'm very proud to have Dean here because through thick and thin this guy has you know, taken big swallows, gritted his teeth, clenched his fits, and just it through.
So welcome Dean. Super [00:01:00] happy to have you on the show, man. Really great to see you here. Thanks for having me. Good to be here. Of course. Now Dean, why don't you tell people a little bit about your history and your background. You're not from America, but you live in America. Let's start with, who you are, what you do for work you know, and how we came to meet and stuff.
Cool. Yeah. I am initially from the east coast of South Africa, town called Durban, great beach town, and I moved to America in 2019 to get married. My wife is American and I moved here. We got married in October and then March Covid hit. So I didn't even have work permit or anything like that, so I kind of just sat around and did some odd things here and there.
And eventually got my work permit and I got a job in a cabinet building company. I had worked in it back in South Africa, but I was just like, just worn out on it, like support stuff and I just, I did not want to go back into that world. I. And for some reason I'd always avoided coding. I was always like, no, no, that I can't do that.
That's for the clever [00:02:00] people. So I got a job through my wife's dad who had a connection. I started working at this cabinet company and it was going pretty good. Then we moved from Iowa to Tennessee to be warmer and my wife got a job in an art gallery and they needed someone to work in the framing shop.
So I was like, yeah, I'll do that. I've done some woodwork. Cool. Seeing it as like a, just a stepping stone temporary thing. And then a couple years go by and it's still there. And and then I realized like, where am I going? You know, what's, what is my plan here? This is not a career like we wanna have kids.
My wife would love to stay home and homeschool, like, what's the plan? So then I started thinking like, what can I do? I really don't wanna get back into it. A couple years ago, I'd started a JavaScript course just randomly when I was bored one day. Literally one day, and that was it. And I kept thinking, oh, I'm must go back.
I'm must go back. Then we moved and life happened, so I thought, Hey, let me try and pick that up. So I bought a couple of Udemy courses on sale and I did them, I was pretty good for 2, 3, 4 weeks and then something would [00:03:00] happen. And I'd miss a week, miss two weeks, miss three weeks, come back, oh, maybe I should learn Python, like get a Python course, blah, blah, blah.
That went on for about a year and a half, and then I started listening to podcasts and I listened to the Free Code Camp podcast and I heard your interview and I was like, I'm gonna check this guy out. So I went on and I saw, Hey, I can have a call with this guy, just like whatever. Cool. Yeah, let's do it. I mean, what have I got to lose?
And that's how we got connected and the rest is history. And now we've been working together since officially you started the program in August, but I mean, we were chatting from May last year, a while before that. Yeah. Because I something that Yeah, you were going through, you know, a crisis after, well, our crisis, but set setback after setback.
So, you know, I've been sort of, yeah. You know, over that time, you know, I've really come to admire who you are. But, so you've said two interesting things there that I really like to dig into. One you talked about, coding is for smart people. And the second thing, you talked about this where am I going with my life?
You know, before you know it, so much time has passed, right?
So let's talk about the first one. For now, what do you think about coding? [00:04:00] Is it only for smart people? Yeah, I should have clarified that. I don't think I'm a smart person now. I just think I was wrong about coding being for smart people. So.
Yeah, I mean, I think you do have to have a logical mind of sorts. There's a certain mind that would take to it better and easier, but it's definitely not as unattainable as I initially thought. Right. So would you say that, because none of us really know what smart truly is. Like we know what crazy smart is, but all that, I mean, you know, any of us smart, I don't know.
Right. But would you say that with the right input and instruction. Oh, you know what? I wanna rephrase the question. I want you to sort of provide the input here. So what could make almost anyone succeed in learning code? What factors need to come together?
I say you gotta want it. Yeah, absolutely. It can be a slog. Mm-hmm. The beginnings are very rewarding. You're getting stuff so display on the screen, it's great, it's exciting. Then you start getting into the slog. I think persistence and reps. I I'm a [00:05:00] musician. I know you're a musician. I used to teach guitar lessons and I would say to kids, if you do six hours the day before your lesson, you're gonna come here.
You're not gonna remember a thing. Correct. If you do 10 minutes a day for five days, you're gonna remember what you learned. Correct. And it's about the repetition. It's about doing it. Like you can't just learn it once and go, oh yeah, I'll, I'll get to it in a couple months. Like, I'll remember it that you won't.
So can I ask you, you used to be a guitar teacher, right? I'm totally self-taught of the guitar, right. But I reckon it took me 10 years to learn what I could have learned in six months with the right instructor. Would you agree with that? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm self-taught as well. I mean, I'm still not a great guitarist.
I was like, I was good enough to teach. Yeah. School kids. But yeah, for sure. I mean. Just the guidance, like not having someone there every day saying do this, do this, do this. And you're just doing it from memory that that doesn't work. But just point pointing you in the right direction and answering your questions.
Right, right. Keep going, keep going. I mean, yeah, I think that was, [00:06:00] that was all I had on that point. It's just someone to go to when you're stuck, someone to remove blockers for you, because that can be like. That can kill your progress. If you get to a blocker and you're just like, oh, well this is too hard.
Hey, hope you're enjoying this episode. Listen, I bet you're tired of the social media BS. You're confused and overwhelmed. And all you want is for someone to just show you a clear path to a coding career. Right? We get it. My partner, Brian and I. We changed to code in our thirties and we can help you do it too.
Brian and I have done all sorts of engineering work from startups to Google, and now we've built an exclusive private mentorship program designed to get you from beginner to professional developer, whether you've done a coding bootcamp, you have a computer science degree, or you're starting from zero, it doesn't matter.
We'll build you a step by step and customized plan not just for the coding stuff, but for the entire career change process Look, i'll be honest. The program is not easy and it's not short But if you do the [00:07:00] work, you'll get results that will change your life If that's what you want go to parsity. io slash inner- circle or find any of the links in the show notes And you can schedule a free call with us speak to you there
That can kill your progress. If you get to a blocker and you're just like, oh, well this is too hard. I'm out. You, you sta you are stranded and you're stalled. Right? Like you set adrift. And, and so this is the thing about coding as well, like of course anyone can learn on their own of course's totally possible. But is that the right strategy? What do you think? No, definitely not. I mean, there's gonna be that small handful of people in the world who just sit down, do it and get it.
But like, we're kidding ourselves if, if we think that there's a high chance that we're one of those people. Yeah. And what about the chances are if someone is, if someone can do that, chances are they're not gonna sit down and be learning to code. They're already doing something great. Interesting. Okay.
And, and so here's the, the other thing that I keep thinking [00:08:00] about, right? Like, and I was learning to play the guitar and stuff before the internet, but I, it's the same principle when I was learning to code, right? It's one thing if you have the grit, the time. And the perseverance to do it, that's great. But what is the it that you're doing?
How do, how do we even know what to do? Right. What was your experience like that when, when trying to learn to code? Yeah. It's like what do I learn? Like do I learn, like do I just build a project? What project do I build? How do I know what's too hard?
Like, am I gonna sit down and build a full on website with e-commerce features and all that stuff? Like how do I know not to do that? Yeah. And what if I try to do that failed, which is totally normal and expected and think, oh, coding's too hard. Mm-hmm. So tutorials can help there because they start you, you know, small and get bigger.
But again, with the blockers, like the moment you hit a blocker, you can't call up that instructor and say, Hey, I need some help here. Right. Am I seeing this correctly? Am I missing something, right? Yeah. [00:09:00] So can I ask what made you, despite all the hardship and all the effort, what made you want to join the program and work with me?
Like what changed for you? At what point were you like, that's probably the next step I need. Well, I think a lot of what we've been talking about, the fact that I couldn't do it on my own, like I thought I could and I could for small stretches, but. The, the stamina, just like, it's not that the stamina wasn't there, maybe the stamina was there.
It just needed to be brought out in me. Like it just needed to have some incentive, some skin in the game where it's like, yeah. And it's also, and accountability. Mm-hmm. And there's also something to be said for people with high work ethic are a big risk because high work ethic, without knowing what to do.
Is a recipe for going really fast in the wrong direction. Guessing You aware? For sure. And you will lose a ton of time. Like one of the other people, you, you know Matt, he talked about that. He's like, you know, one day you wake up and it's like five years after you started and I've gotten nowhere, you know?
Yeah. Where does all the time go? It's [00:10:00] because you're very hardworking, but you're not working the right things. And that's where you end up. Like, you know, you're driving really fast in the wrong direction. You're in the middle of nowhere and not where you want to be. So from your point of view, you know, I mean obviously from your point of view, it's, it's always a risk.
You didn't really know me, knew nothing about the program. You've done courses, you've been, you know, and all of that. And of course we don't do courses in, in the Inner Circle program, but now you are actually working a real world. Coding environment on the side while doing your full, full-time day job still.
Now that you've got that little bit of insight, and I know we've talked about this as part of the Inner Circle program over and over again, but I, I'd like you to, now that you've directly experienced it, summarize what is it, what do most people get wrong when they think about transitioning their career to becoming a coder?
What is it that most people think of that they're probably wrong about the timeframe? Mm-hmm. Is a big one. Mm-hmm. Anything else? I think people think people think they can code in six months and get a job. They think they can do it on their own, not only with guidance in [00:11:00] what to learn, but in networking and mm-hmm.
Getting to know people and getting Yep. Experience of what a real job is gonna be. 'cause you can do. The best Udemy courses you want on JavaScript and it, it will not prepare you for what you are actually gonna be doing day to day. So let's talk about that. Now that you've experienced what we are doing day to day, what is the difference between learning to code and being an actual professional coder?
Oh man. I've, I've been, I've been working in this, this startup, right? The start thing for Yeah. For maybe like two weeks and. It is hard to explain. Like it's not that I don't use a lot of the stuff that I've learned, it's just you use them as like tools. You, you pick different things from them and piece them together in the real world.
It's not like it's not all laid out now and linear for you. It's like, oh, you're gonna build this, then you're gonna route it to this, then you're gonna build this. No, it's there. Someone's throwing it at you and builds it probably badly and messy and you've gotta make it work. [00:12:00] Yeah, not, and not add to the mess.
You've gotta make it like coherent and as best as you can so that the next person doesn't have what you have. Correct. And that, for me is a big thing. I'm big on organization. I'm like, this is awful. I don't want anyone else to see this. I'm gonna make it better cleaner. Yeah. And this is the thing. Time suck though.
Oh, it can, and it's, it's a learned skill and over time you get better at not fixing things that don't need to be fixed, even though they look different from what you'd like. And you know, it's like a, a lot of people think. Playing the guitar is about picking it up and pressing some strings and striking the thing, and it's not, it's a lot more than that.
It's about understanding the notes on the fretboard. It's about understanding how your right hand does something different from your left hand, when to do it. It's about understanding, timing and rhythm. It's not actually about the guitar, but it's about a more generalized set of theory or concepts. That you then have to bring together.
Right. And I think a lot of people think that, oh, if I just pick up some music, I can, I can improvise music with some, I can jam with people. [00:13:00] Jamming is really hard to do. It's so much easier to pick up a piece of, you know, of, of, of tablature or chords or something. I. And same thing with programming. When someone's giving you a tutorial and they're giving you all the steps, it's so easy to build a thing out, even if you get stuck, right?
Mm-hmm. But when you have to figure out how to build a bridge on your own, without the, without the, the the, the instruction manual. All the principles of engineering still apply. Tri geometry, geometry, you know, calculus, all the physics of it, all of it comes together, but it comes together in this complex thing.
That's no one thing, you know? And I think that's, that's what you're experiencing now when you're finally in the industry, is all the training that you've had as part of the program before the program, et cetera, has given you the vocabulary, the intuition, the fundamental tooling. But now you have to bring the band together somehow.
You know, and, and reason about other people's code, man, tell me, how hard is it to read other people's code? It's hard, right? It, it has been a challenge, but a challenge I'm very grateful for, especially in such a low pressure situation. Yeah. I'm not just being thrown in to a very [00:14:00] high pressure. Fix this.
Yeah. I wanna go back to your guitar analogy though, because it's a great one. Because you can read all the books you want about where to put your fingers on the fretboard and think of a song like that. Everyone knows Yellow by Coldplay. Yeah. 90% of that song is one chord shape. But you gotta know where to put it.
And then even if you put it in the right place, if you just go and you strum down the whole song, that's not yellow. It's not strumming pattern. The, the, the feel of it, the rhythm of it makes the song. Like you can technically know how to play the song and describe it to someone. Correct. But it won't sound like the song.
Abso, and, and this, that's the beauty of all of these, these compound skills, whether it's music, whether it's you know, being a good public speaker or whether it's you know, being a good manager or being a good software engineer, they compound skills and everybody focuses on the obvious thing, you know?
Or if I'm a manager, I need to learn about management. Or if I'm a coder, I need to learn the code. That's the starting point. Right. tell me. Something about now that you started to interact with more developers compared to, let's say, a year ago, [00:15:00] what's the difference in their attitude towards you?
What have you learned in the program that has helped you get a lot more interest from these people where previously it wasn't there? I think, and you've spoken about this, like you need to sound like an insider. So if you sound like you don't know what you're talking about or if you're asking questions on very basic concepts mm-hmm.
That's immediately a flag for like, okay, this, this guy's like, he doesn't know yet. And yeah. And I've shared this story with you and, and the group where like, I had an experience when I, I've got a friend who's a developer who I've known for a few years, and we used to talk and he used to talk about his job and I'm like.
I don't understand any of these concepts. I don't know what this guy does every day. And then we met up a couple months ago and like I was telling him what I'm doing and he was telling me what he was doing and he would tell me something that sounds kind of esoteric and I would say, oh, is that just this?
Hi, if you want a no BS insight into how to change your career, whether to code or something else and how to actually get job opportunities in tech, then please subscribe and like.
It's no BS [00:16:00] because I have zero incentive to mislead you. I just want to help you and give you tons of value so that you will consider working with me to get to your next career.
Take a look at the
description text below to learn more about the training I offer. But I do post content here regularly and by subscribing and liking and hitting that notification bell you will get to know when I post new industry insights for you. You'll also know within about three seconds if you want to learn more, but at least you won't miss out.
Oh, and please follow me on LinkedIn too. I pretty much post there every single day. Just look for my name, Zubin Pratap. All right. So please like, and subscribe to this channel and let's get back to the episode.
And then we met up a couple months ago and like I was telling him what I'm doing and he was telling me what he was doing and he would tell me something that sounds kind of esoteric and I would say, oh, is that just this?
And he was like, yeah, that's exactly what it's, I'm like, oh, I get it now. Like I get this concept. I have the vocabulary for what he's saying. And then I was telling him the stuff that I was learning and he was like, yeah, we don't use that like. That's, we just use the stuff that's like borderline legacy.
Yeah. Okay. Oh, so you mean, you mean the stuff that you were [00:17:00] using and which you're using now in, in your, in your internship thingy is, is more up to date than what he's doing in his older job? Yeah. And he's like refactoring a massive code base and they've spent so long refactoring it that. There's newer stuff now.
Yeah. Oh, such a classic problem. Okay. And so Dean, given all the struggles, given all the setbacks you faced, man, like you and you know, Isabel and stuff, how does that feel, how does that feel to see that progress so clearly clear as day? How does that feel? Man, it's rewarding. I mean, the days are long with a full-time job.
Yeah. And to see some fruit from it is. It's good, but it's taken patience. And of course it has patience that I was prepared for. And I think my failing to do it alone kind of prepared me for this because I know there isn't a quicker way. It's not like I could be thinking, oh, if Suen wasn't, you know, dragging this out, I could be quicker because I've tried that and it didn't work, it wasn't quicker.
So, be patient, I'm not saying it's easy, [00:18:00] but it's easier to accept the day-to-day is still hard. It's easier to accept that this is how long it does take. And even, I mean, even if I get a job in the next couple months, that's still quick. Like in the grand scheme of things ex exactly. In the grand scheme of things.
Like how does an extra six months matter to anybody really? You know, you are much more likely when you first told me that, like, yeah, when you first told me that you, it's gonna be at least a year. It's like, man, I don't wanna wait a year. And then I thought, yeah. I tried my first JavaScript line of code two and a half years ago.
Years ago. Yeah. Time. Where would I be now? If I'd just done it then like my life would be completely different. Different, yeah. So what am I gonna say A year from now? Am I gonna be still in this job and say, oh, I didn't do this because it was gonna take a year. Like time flies, dude. Yeah. Time flies, you know?
And you know, we've only got like four decades of productive, really productive time in our life anyway. And it's not long. Yeah. And half a decade can fly like this. A decade can fly like that, you know, in the blink of an eye. Yeah. Can you, you know, [00:19:00] 'cause given the way you think, you're highly self-aware, you are, you're a man, a few words, but you're extremely thoughtful, very analytical.
What was it about the program that you weren't expecting that was a surprise to you? That, but now looking back, you're like, yeah, I, I think that was a good thing that, that, that was part of the program.
That's a good question. I definitely think the the mindset stuff at the beginning. The first six weeks we go through more mindset and market development stuff as well, but it's a lot more esoteric, no coding and, that stuff was it was challenging. Some of it wasn't. 'cause as you say, I'm very self aware.
I'm very aware of my flaws, but I kind of stopped there. I'm like, okay, so now how do I fix my flaws? Kind of take pride in that. Yeah, I know what's wrong with me. And then they're like, so if someone's never asked me, so how are you gonna fix it? I don't know yet. So getting some tools to fix those kind of blockers.
'cause it's not just technical blockers that you're gonna come across. It's. Mental blockers, it's emotional blockers. Correct. Especially 'cause that can, that can [00:20:00] snowball very quickly. You come into a technical blocker, then you start thinking, I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough.
This is all I'm worth. And then it just spirals. Yeah. So being able to catch that and go, no, this is a temporary setback. This is who I am as a person, man, and I can do this. And yeah, that was, I mean, I knew that part of the course was coming, but you never know the impact it's gonna have until you go through it.
Yeah. And then you, it's for the next six months, seeing it in action when you come into problems. What do you mean? Like, so in the execution phase, when you actually doing, delivering on all the coding stuff, you know, what do you mean by it? It you really see it coming to action then? Like, what, what, what do you mean for, for people who don't understand what you're saying?
Well, like when you maybe move on to a new concept and it just seems like a lot and you're like. Oh my gosh, I'll never understand this. This is way too difficult. And then you, you stop and you think, okay, well what have I done so far? That stuff looked difficult. Yeah. And now I can do it. So, and you think [00:21:00] a lot of people have done this?
Why not me? Like, yeah, they're not special and I'm not special in the reverse way. Like, I can do this, you know? A hundred percent. And, and I mean, when you first met your friend, you know, a few years ago, the guy who's been a developer a while, and everything he was saying was total gobbledygook for you now.
Immediately understanding like that is learning. That's progress. Yeah. You know, and what was hard then is now easy. And now what's hard for you was impossible back then. You know, what gets your ability to handle harder things just gets much better. That means your life gets better because life progress is bigger.
Problems to solve. That's progress. Right. I'm so excited for you, man, dude, that that's, that's really quite wonderful. You know, the mindset thing that you talk about pretty much every student who comes into the program. You know, and even otherwise, when people sort of talk about it, they're like, oh, but it's, this is about learning to code.
Why are you doing this? You know, and it's hard for me to explain to them, but maybe you can explain it better. Why do you feel that was the most, that was important for you, even before getting to the coding bin? [00:22:00] Well. Like I've mentioned, I think you need to be prepared for blockers because they are going to happen.
Like no matter how much you think you're grasping the concept, there's gonna be something that doesn't work and you can't fix it. And it may be something dumb, but it may be a typo, but it's gonna elicit the same emotion in you. It's gonna be like, oh my gosh, I can't do this. Obviously it failed. Yeah. And then when you find that typo, you're just like, wow, that was dumb.
Yeah. So, but then you've also gotta be like, you can't kick yourself for that. You just kinda laugh at it and move on. And I think dealing with the patients dealing with the rejection, the inevitable rejection of reaching out to people, they don't respond or they respond a couple times and then just fade away.
That's not personal and it's hard not to take that personally because there's two people involved and they're the one bailing out. But people are busy. I mean, people have lives. So you just gotta learn, like, you just gotta stay confident. This is not me. This is them. And now what can I do? Moving on?
Yeah. How do I keep going? [00:23:00] Am I tired? Yeah. Well, I've just gotta do it tired, like making excuses. There's just no room for excuses that you just can't do it. There can be reasons, you know, things happen, life happens. And, and that's, that's, its inevitable. And you've said that from the beginning. Hey, there's gonna be bad weeks.
You can't let those bad weeks get you down because it's just a week. Then you, you deal with it, and then you get up back on the horse and you start the next week. Yeah. Put one foot in front of the other. Yeah. Separate the reasons and the excuses. Yeah. So you know And remember the reason you're doing it as well.
Yes, yes. Because nobody in their right mind actually wants to change their career unless there's a big reason for it. You know? It's just so much easier to do what you're already doing and let. Momentum carry along and coast along and it's risky. Yeah. Like I'm comfortable. I'm not, like, I'm not digging in trash for food.
I'm comfortable. No. Yeah. But totally. You know what I want for my future. Like what, what is my future? Yes. And you know, you have to, my family's towards that. [00:24:00] Yeah. And that has to be, so you said something that's really stuck with me and I can't remember the exact line. I'd have to look it up. But we were talking about where I am.
Financially and all that stuff and what I want for my kids. And and you said something like, you know, by the time your kids are old and you've done through this and you've had a successful software career, that's gonna be your kid's starting point. Mm-hmm. And they, they can launch from there. I was like, I never really thought of it that way.
Like Yeah. Yeah. Everything we do in our life stuck with me. Yeah. Our highest achievements becomes the next generation starting point. Yeah. You know, that's how it works, right? And that's why I, with you guys, all of you, I always think about the 30 year timeline, right? Yeah. Like I'm not playing next year games next year is a tactic, it's a stepping stone, but I'm thinking 30 years down the track.
'cause that's when we were out of time, kind of out options. And the moment a reckoning is gonna come, you know, that's when scales are held up and said, well, how'd you do? How'd you do with the time you had on [00:25:00] this planet? How far did you go with it? Right? So look, man, I mean, you're an absolute beast when it comes to, you know, you've really taken the mindset on board.
Clearly that's resulted in you being a better programmer. You've now got this, you know, internship opportunity and you're actually doing real, real world work. I. In professional coding environment, and you meet, you're encountering the messiness of it. The the, emotional and intellectual challenge of it.
The imposter syndrome, the sense of overwhelm from time to time. The holy crap, where do I start? All of this, right? This is making contact with the real world. And this is proof of progress, right? Because two years ago, this wasn't even possible. This wasn't even in your orbit, right? Yeah. And now the kind of problems you're having is not, can I do it?
The problem is. Oh, you know, will I get the opportunity? The problem is not that I have the opportunity, how the hell do I actually deliver it? Right. It's a way better problem to have, so, congratulations. I, I'd like you to just think for a moment and, and, given that your family and, having the kids and, you know, homeschooling them and all that, these are all part of your dreams.
What are you most [00:26:00] excited about the future? Not that you've done this journey. You've been an example to others in the program as well, and it's such a small group, you get to meet most of them, you know, but what are you most excited about for, for your future as yourself and the family? You know, what excites you most now?
Well, there's the obvious of having a job in this industry. Generally, you move up. Mm-hmm. You get better salaries, things can make life a lot more comfortable, et cetera, et cetera. But also just the achievement, like the continual growth. You know, I've worked a lot of kind of dead end jobs and yeah, I mean, I've got raises and stuff, but it's like you're the shop manager.
Where do you go from there? Like, I don't want to own the place. What's my next step? You know? Yeah. So just yeah, like progress growth. Yeah. That, that is exciting. Having a a, a, a path ahead of me. Yeah. Like something that I can aim for, something that I can work towards and be rewarded for those things and yeah.
Like a purpose you mean? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. 'cause [00:27:00] yeah, like, as you say, the day to day, I, I mean, my job's fine now. I don't really enjoy it, but it, it's fine. And it's so easy to just go, yeah. Tomorrow's another day. Yay. The weekend's here. Okay. Another week there. Yay. The weekend's here. And yeah, having something to aim for, something a little more like, this is what I'm aiming for, whether it's a new job or a new skill or something like that.
Or being able to be there for my kids and, and provide for them and not have to be just grinding, like, just to be able to feed them, you know, that kind of thing. I'm, I'm not of the illusion that money solves or problems, but, yeah, it's just not having money creates a lot more problems though. Yes, for sure.
So that's the reality, you know, just the safety of like, oh, my car broke down. I can afford to fix it. Yeah. Stuff like that. No, absolutely. And that emotionally liberates you. It also gives, you know mm-hmm. The, the challenges that you and your partner have will not be the challenges your kids face. You know, they'll face a higher quality of problem.
That's, that's really what progress [00:28:00] looks like at the end of the day. So, dude, that's fantastic. Look, again, you know, you, you're almost there. Like you've got the internships and you know, you've got the recruiting interest coming up that's gonna happen. And this is a down market and you're still landing the opportunity.
So it's always a question of time from here on. You've done an outstanding job and I think you've got a very long future ahead of you and you've got. All the emotional and mindset skills that you need and the actual technical skills. You, you're now in a position where you can genuinely teach yourself meaningfully.
You know, you've got the foundational stuff and from here on you, you get to decide what happens next. So, congratulations, you've done a tremendous job. I'm super proud to been part of this. And I know the others have been sharing you on for a while. You're an inspiration to them, so really great job.
And thank you for taking the time. I know it's time away from your family in the evening, so thanks for taking the time. I wanna add one thing. I thought of an answer to that last question. Being able to model kind of persistence and this kind of stuff to my kids. I think that's, that'll be super rewarding.
You know, Hey, like, stuff takes work. [00:29:00] Yeah. And this is the, the, this is the end product of that work, you know? Yeah. And. I mean, that can happen in any job. Yeah. But I think this is a unique journey that I'm on, and it will be on for a long time. And I think it's a really great example to, to have to give my kids, , it's a superpower once they understand what, what the real price of dreams are.
Yeah. It is a superpower because now you know, you just had to pay the price. It's achievable. You just had to pay the price. That's it. Right. And it's easier said than done. Right. Hence the podcast. And dude, look, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate that. No problem. Yeah, good talking and yeah, say hi to the family and you take care.
So thanks for being on the show. No problem. Thanks for having me.
Just subscribe, you know you gotta do it.
