Saeed__Zubin Ep??
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Saeed__Zubin: [00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to the Easiest and Than Done Podcast. And as always, I'm excited to bring you some really interesting people. This time we've got on the show who's currently a student in the execution phase of the Inner Circle program.
Welcome and hello Saeed Hey, what's up Zubin Pleasure as always to see you again. Yeah. It's great to speak to you. I always enjoy we, we have such laughs even on the calls and stuff, and we are doing all the work related stuff together. So it's great to, to sort of spend a little more casual downtime with you, but also thanks for spending a little time on your Easter with me, man.
I appreciate it. Absolutely. Anytime. It's more family stuff to me, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I totally get it. I've had, I've, I've had my body weight in, in hot cross buns, though they're really good in Australia. And every year I'm like, I'll have just one this year. I'm up to seven in the last four days, which is not good.
Sorry. It's, I had a, oh, I, I hear you. I had a large fill on a like a tart that my sister brought. It was a massive thing. Ah. So much of it. Too much of it. Well, what do you, what do you do? It's [00:01:00] Easter and she made it. You gotta do it. You gotta do it. It's the right thing. You're doing the right thing by her.
But look, man, why don't we start with a little introduction of yourself. So tell us a little bit about who you are, where in the world you are and you know, why you wanted to learn to code Yeah, well, so like you introduced, my name's Saeed. I live on the East coast and I do brewing for an actual job, but I've been fascinated by coding really into it.
[00:01:25] Show Intro
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Welcome to Easier Said Than Done with me, Zubin Pratap, where I share with you my journey from 37 year old lawyer to professional software engineer. The goal of this podcast is to show you how to actually do those things that are easier said than done.
Saeed__Zubin: I've been fascinated by coding really into it.
Started messing around on FreeCodeCamp trying to learn on my own, and just really found that it was really, really, really quite difficult. I spent so much time just watching YouTube, seeing things, people. Saying, learn this, learn that. And I had no [00:02:00] real route to take. So then I stumbled upon you and some of your podcasts and everything, and that kind of got the, the ball rolling, so to speak, and, and really helped me, which now that I'm in the execution phase.
It helped me so much more, like getting a hold of you and, and really like focusing down on very specific things rather than the the jumbling of just trying to learn Everyone saying, learn Rust learn Python, learn, go learn. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't even know how to program, so I gotta learn that.
Yeah, that's all SEO stuff, trying to get your attention and eyeballs. But you know, and I know when you reached out, you were also sort of following Brian's podcast, which is excellent. Much bigger podcast. It's been around a while. It's such a great podcast. And so what made you, when, when you say it was hard, what do you mean and what made you want to reach out for help?
'cause a lot of people think they can do it or they should do it on their own, but, and you tried to do that, which is the right thing to do? I think everyone should try and do it on their own. What made it hard for you, specifically looking back, I [00:03:00] mean, what timeline, what made it hard? Sorry, let me start again.
What, what timeline did you start? How long did you try on your own for? What was it that was so hard and what made, what pushed you over the edge to say, shoot, I need some help here. Well, so I think I really started looking into it more around the tail end of 20 23, 20 24. So Rel relatively recent. Yeah.
And it, it started off as just, you know, Googling things, sort of reading, perusing, saying it like,
can I do this? I 100% thought
this is only for genius level people. You know, physics, math, PhD, all that.
I was like, there's no way I'll ever be able to learn any of this. Oh God. Yeah. Sort of, sort of stumbling around.
The first thing I, I really fell into was Quincy Larson, the FreeCodeCamp sort of stuff. And that started acting, to be honest. I think that's why we all start. Yeah. Yeah. And it's great what, what they're doing is, is [00:04:00] absolutely fantastic. It's just for me personally. Sitting there, just following the lessons, I, I don't think that, I wasn't learning, but it was really hard to gauge any sort of progress because after a while, like you can kind of look at forum stuff, you figure it out and you move on to the next thing.
But that's kind of where I found myself just moving on to the next thing and not, not necessarily retaining a bunch of things. And then I. Sort of took some time off, watched a bunch of YouTube, and that was kind of a mistake. Some of it was cool, but it, it was kind of a mistake because I was very influenced, I was very influenced by, by some of the other people saying, oh yeah, it's so easy.
Just do this, just do that. And, and I really took that to heart. 'cause part of me, I, I was in a position where I was looking to kind of change careers and whatnot, and. That was very appetizing for me to hear. Yeah. And then I started, so why [00:05:00] was the YouTube video videos when they said, it's easy and anyone can do it, and you just do this and you just do that?
Why was that not working for you or what was not easy in your experience? Well, a a lot of it was you, you get sucked into listening to people telling you how easy something is. But I wasn't. Actually doing it.
[00:05:19] CTA
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a lot of it was you, you get sucked into listening to people telling you how easy something is. But I wasn't. Actually doing it.
And I, and it's so easy to be influenced by, by what some of these people say and how casual they make it seem.
And then once I started trying, sorry, sorry to interrupt, but why do you think it's easy for human beings to to get sucked into that approach? Like, I see it all the time, right? What do you think it is about these, the way these influencers talk about it, that is so appetizing, that's so attractive and so lulling.
It, it kind of makes it seem like they're just like an average Joe. Like, like it seems like they're just like me in the same [00:07:00] position. Just like, oh, I was interested. I started doing this, and now, now look at me. Now look where I am. And it's, it's almost, you're seeing the after product rather than all, all the steps leading up to that hundred percent.
And why do you think that's dangerous when you only see the end result? Highlight reel. Why do you think that's dangerous? Well now actually been doing like the coursework with you and everything. They don't show you probably all of the mistakes, how long it took to come up with some of those answers.
It's, you know, you watch someone create a spinning 3D cube on YouTube in, you know, 40 minutes and you're like, wow, that looks easy. And it's like, man, that probably took that guy months to figure out how to even go about it. First of all. You know, so it, it, it's really, it, it was just really like, like the YouTube stuff.
You find someone, someone says, Hey, listen to this guy. Next thing you know, it's like you [00:08:00] have eight different opinions about one thing all telling you something different. And it's, it, it's just at a certain point it really made me think more so like, can I really do this? Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I wasn't physically doing it either.
I wasn't putting fingers to, to the keyboard and trying it. It was just, they were making it seem like it was so close within the grasp. But yeah, that's
things like YouTube and Instant and TikTok and stuff, it's like, it's like learning
by watching the races.
It's, you're not in the driver's seat at all.
Let's just, just, I, you know, I, I think I'm a bit lucky because I'm a lot older than you guys and I started my career like five years before, you know, u choose was mainstream, right? Yeah. This is a different world, right? And we'd learn pretty early on that most of the things people have to say aren't worth really listening to unless they've done it themselves.
Like it was just a habit when you didn't have the internet. How would you find someone [00:09:00] to learn from? You'd go to someone who's done what you've already done. Yeah, right, exactly. But with the internet, you suddenly got this illusion that you can pretty much access anyone you like. And they've only try and because attention spans are so short, they're gonna only try and compress everything down in 10 or 15 minutes.
And you lose so much insight because of that compression. There's such loss of quality because of that compression that it leads people to get very badly stuck and blind. And, you know, you're not the only one. Pretty much every student that's comes through you met, there's others that you, you, you are within your community.
Pretty much everyone's gone through this, right? In the last 10 years, this is how the internet's done, done things, and we've all followed victim to that. So I guess looking back in hindsight, what, what, what would you say were the top two or three mistakes you made that you think pretty much every beginner know everybody who's on this journey is making today?
Oof. Well, I could definitely say, first of all, that it's. Easy to do in a short amount of time. I think that that is one of the most [00:10:00] perpetuated things that I've seen on YouTube is people saying, yeah, you can get a coding job so quickly. Just do these easy steps. And it's, it, it, it's like, you know, it's great if those type of people are very quick learners on certain things or they.
That's all they do is focus on that. And it's like, my circumstance is much different. Like I work full time and I'm trying to learn this at the same time. So it's, it's not easier for me. Different, yeah. Hundred percent. But it, it's, it's a mix of, you know, that sort of, I don't wanna call it brainwashing, but kind of making it seem like it's, it's so easy and so achievable in a short amount of time.
Also the, the other end of that is all the videos telling you not to learn programming. Because there's no, there's no jobs or, or anything. And it's like, it's, it is everywhere. You know what I mean? It's everywhere, of course. And that's just the way the algorithms work. Right. And, but what is the real goal?
Your side? What, what, [00:11:00] you know, we talk about this a lot in the program, but what is the real goal? Well, let, let me phrase it another way. Why is learning to code the wrong goal? Now that you've done so much of the program? Why is learning to code the wrong goal? I mean, I think it would be the, the wrong goal if the end goal is honestly, I think just financial gain or some sort of financial value, like money.
I know money is, it's not, not important, but it's just like with, with other jobs too. I mean,
if you hate coding and you're just doing it for money. If you're miserable and you're trying to go into this to not be miserable, you're probably gonna be extremely miserable.
Extremely miserable. Yeah. And it's not a get rich quick scheme.
I mean, there are much easier ways to get six figures than learning to way easier, you know, you just gotta do other hard things. But it's easier than learning to go. It's probably gonna take you, you know, three months instead of, or six months to, to get really good at sales. Yeah. And then, you know, for example, sales is a [00:12:00] roles commission based.
You can earn a lot of money, you know? And so, but here's the other thing that I think people get wrong. They think learning to code is the goal and they don't realize that you need to get hired. Yes, right? That is the other side. There is a huge gap between having some literacy, which is what a lot of these websites and courses will teach you.
Hey, here's how to write a basic bit of JavaScript or whatever. But then being able to stitch all of that together with all the tooling to get to, wow, I now know how to build something and I can out-compete the market. That's the difference between playing basketball in your hood, in your neighborhood, and playing for the NBA.
It's that big a difference. It's the same sport, same rules. You know the rules, you know how to play, but you're just not that good, you know? So, and why do you think so many people fall into that trap of thinking that, oh, all I need to do is learn to code and everything else will just follow? Well, yeah, I mean partly because it's like if you think you could just write masterful code and that [00:13:00] is probably gonna be the only thing that can get you hired.
A lot of people can write code, like so many people can do what you do. It's, it's definitely trying to figure out a way. To stand out, which is a lot of that, making connections with others, being seen, being accepted in as like, Hey, this person isn't just a guy who's like, oh, I think I know how to code. I think I know how to do that.
It's like I showing progress, showing that you actually care to learn more. Yeah. And you wanna take things further than just a face value. Yeah. Like get the fundamentals down, start building some real projects, start showing some people some projects, networking, which I know in the course we've talked about that.
That's huge. And I mean, personally speaking, meeting and networking with others. And being able to sort of reflect that progress and see them respond to the progress. Right. But [00:14:00] it's, it's, it's been huge. And it's not necessarily just like a motivator. It's, yeah. It, it shows that one weekend effort, it's taken months of, of training that you've done to get to this point.
Yeah. And hearing that too, you know, hearing someone tell you, man. A couple months ago, like you didn't know anything, and now we're, we're having a much more broadened conversation on a subject, and then they're like, oh. You actually know a little bit about that. That's crazy. How does that make you feel, Saeed Because I know for you it's been a, it's been a journey. You've, you've done the training so well, you've executed exactly as we asked you to. You've been very responsive to feedback. You've been very proactive. You've had some really nasty weeks and, and setbacks and life things and work getting in the way and all, all that.
You've had everything, all the challenges everyone does. But you've had a recent sort of breakthrough where. Some pretty experienced engineers in the community are like, holy crap, dude, you are, you are getting good. You know? How does that make you feel? Yeah, no, I mean, it feels [00:15:00] fantastic, honestly, like I, I, I'm not trying to like, like brag or anything, but it, it makes me feel like I.
It's like, oh man, like I'm doing this, this versus, versus before I, I was like, I, I don't understand anything. And it's, it, it's so much nicer to sort of see that progress. That is the, the biggest, like, I, I don't even know. It's like a high, it's just, it's like, I bet. Bet. It just makes me feel great. Then it really makes me feel great.
Yeah, and that's the point. That's the point of doing this, is to see that progress. Sometimes you're not gonna see it for a long time, and then you suddenly see these big jumps and then you'll flatter out again and again, for anyone who's listening and want people understand side has made amazing progress.
But I would stay side, I would say Saeed you're still four to six months away from being job ready, even though you made such enormous progress. Right. And that's because people under underestimate how much it takes to be job ready. You know? Yeah. And you've learned a lot about that in the program is because we break it down.
We have a no BS policy. We're like, you are competing against these kind of people. Yeah. This is your [00:16:00] target, not the learning to code stuff. Your target is to outcompete these folks. Right. So, so for you, you know, compared to, or let me, let me rephrase the question of this. What made you want to join and work with Brian and I when we decided to join forces?
I mean, I, I definitely enjoyed what I was hearing from you guys. It resonated more with me when you guys would talk about how it's like you gotta check out the market, you have to network. I know it was very heavy on the networking side of things. And at the time, I mean, I, I knew no software engineers, none of my friends, close friends are software engineers.
But on top of that, it was. The realness of it too, of you guys saying this isn't gonna take three weeks, three months. It's, it's an absolute journey. And laying out the seven steps going through saying if you, if you get through these three, [00:17:00] you still got these four going. That are, are crucial, crucial skills to learn.
Learning is step three, step two and three actually. And so that's still big level stuff. Like that's still the starting point of the long journey of getting a job, you know? Yeah. And, and I mean the, I think the thing that grasped me the most was you're the dedication of saying if you're willing to work with us, like we're willing to work with you and try to give you every ounce of a fighting chance.
To sort of make it to that level and not just like, oh yeah, just learn these and, and you're done. It's like, the course has been so much more than that and I, I mean, I thought it was gonna be one way and it was totally different in the best way. You, you know what you mean? And, and how to say nice things like you can tell us the good and the bad.
I want people to hear authentic views about their experience in the program. Good, bad, ugly, whatever it is. Yeah. It's all, I mean, because to be real [00:18:00] honest, part of me was like, this seems like a scam. I was like, this is, this is such bullshit. You know what I mean? I, I don't know. I
seemed it. You know, hearing like it's not just about learning to code and my, and my mindset's like, well, that's the job though, so why wouldn't that be the most important thing? Why are you telling me talking to everyone and working on your, your mental state and, and really like pushing us to do all this extra work instead of the code?
And then it's like now though. It's like, oh man, like you saying, oh, you're still four to six months out. I'm not like, I give up, I quit. It's, I would have, I would have if we didn't really sit down and work together on kind of developing that, that sort of mentality. Like, I still, I have bad days, you know?
Everyone. Yeah. And, but it's, it's never been so bad that I was like, yeah, I'm gonna close this laptop. Yeah. I'm not gonna do this anymore. [00:19:00] It's. You know, I don't care if anyone has negative stuff to say anything like I'm, I am mentally a, a, a steel cement block, like in here, just going forward. I, I know this, this started from the conversation of why you thought it was a scam and this stuff is an important, but now let's close the loop.
Why is all this other stuff that's not to do with codes so important? Because that sort of, you can beat yourself up so much more and make it so. You start losing that steam, you start losing that progress and you'll quit. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's really that, that's the killer in all of it, to be honest.
It's, it's like if anyone sticks with it, you know, if I'm like four years in and I'm still like, what, how do I write a for loop then this probably is not for me, you know? But. It's, it, it's, I, you know, I, I had that thought actually a couple days ago. I was just driving and thinking, and I'm like, imagine if I never [00:20:00] tried something, and that's where most people or automatically fail in my eyes.
It's, yeah, the fear of not taking a risk or putting that foot forward. You'll never know though, like you have to do that. How else would you know if, if you're gonna be good at something you like, something you want to keep at it? You know, I can say from my own personal experience, I've had the really good days thinking I got this.
I've had the days with my head in my hands. I've still, as much as possible try to try to code every day, push through lessons, review things. It's. It's never been a, yeah, I don't, I, I don't want to do this anymore and just stopping for like weeks on end. So it's, that's, and, and, and this is the thing that people don't realize.
The big risk is not that they're not smart enough, is not that they can't do it, it's that they have the wrong expectations and so they quit
, right? And they quit kind of near the finish line, or at least near a significant [00:21:00] milestone. And had they achieved that milestone and realize it's not far away, then they wouldn't have quit at all.
They would've continued, they would've got that new, you know, energy. So, so at what point in time for you s did you go from, okay, maybe this is not a scam, maybe this is actually something that's gonna happen. Me? Like, do you remember, was there a moment where something's flipped inside you? Because it's hard to engage with something the way you have without actually believing in it.
Which is why we so particular that we work with people who believe in what we are doing. Because otherwise we know you're not gonna stick to it. Yeah. So, was there a moment in time when the switches flipped for you? You know, so when we first started, the first couple modules, I was like, I was like, come on, everyone's, I was like, come on man.
I was like, oh, what is this? What is going on here? But I think it was module three when we started getting into the whys. Oh, tail end of, yeah, I'm, I'm thinking, I think the beginning of module two was the BTFA stuff, which I was like, and then there's [00:22:00] the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. When, when it really got to the WHYs from that point onward, I feel like that's where it start.
The trust started building up more, because I was like, this first stuff seemed a little corny. I was like, I was like, why would I have to do that? Like, I'm grown. I can, I'll figure it out. But yeah, I've gone back since then and everything. But the, the why's are really, it took me a, a while. Like I really had to sit down and think.
I was like, I don't know if anyone's ever asked me why I wanna do this. Exactly. I've had people in the program literally break down in tears doing module two, module three. Right in their own time, because I'm like, I don't think you've gone deep enough. And then they go deep enough and suddenly everything becomes clear to them as to who they are, why they do, why they're feeling this way, why they want this.
Yeah. I was, I was one of those people. You just didn't see it. Right. Because it's, it's really tough, but it's, it, [00:23:00] it's, it's almost just like you, you have to take that really hard look. And, and say like, what am I really doing this for? And if it's really some personal things that hit you in the spot, then I think that that's a very good reason to stick with something.
A hundred percent. It's a red pill, blue pill moment. And if you're, if you're not,
if you don't have that breakthrough into some pain you're probably not gonna want it enough.
Yeah, it's as simple as it. And if you don't, and if you don't want it enough, you're not gonna stick with it long enough. And you're not gonna do the work on the dark days, you know?
So that's why I start with psychology because my coach, who was not even technical when she helped me, she said, Zubin you can achieve anything if you know your why. Right? Because your why will have to overcome. It's a Nietschze quote You know, I can endure any how, as long as I know my why. So I can enjoy any mountain provided I know what's on the dock.
And why I want that price, you know? So look, man, I mean, you, you stuck it out [00:24:00] and you know, I'm glad, I'm glad you no longer think we are scam that, that's really positive. That's helpful. And it's shown up in your work. And I mean, I totally get the scam thing because I would think we were scam too.
Like the world is largely selective for scammy noise, right. And. Though actually it's a minority of people. Like, you know, every now and then someone will steal the Amazon package outside my house. Right. It, it's happened enough times that I know the world is full of shit heads, but on balance it happens less than 10% of times.
Yeah. Which means 90% of the time people are fine. And I, I've started to adopt that attitude with, with things online because people can't scan you unless you decide not to ask hard questions. Right. And that's why we spend so much time with students before they come in is ask us the hard questions and we'll give you the nasty answers.
You know, like stuff like, I mean, you know, there's all this stuff about job guarantees. Yeah. How's that even possible? I, I know, I know. It's, it's [00:25:00] like unless you, you have the business and you're willing to take on the people, then Yeah. And even then, is that a good thing for your career? Like, okay, so my business as.
As a business owner, okay? You've been in the brewery business a while. Would you rather go to a school of brewers or would you rather open it to the whole market and pick the best you can? Yeah, I would rather have the people that were in school, right? So I mean, you have to kind of, you have to think about it from the business point of view.
If they're only agreeing to employ people from only one place, there's something wrong with their business. They're not being competitive, right? Harvard doesn't offer a job guarantee. I. There's a reason, right? And that's why I tell students, I'm like, Hey, you can have your money back after to 12 months if you don't, if you don't think you got value.
But I'm not gonna give you a gara, I'm not gonna lie. I can't guarantee you the job. I have zero control over my job, the one I do every day. How the hell am I gonna guarantee you a job? You know who does, like, who, who, which honest person can do that. Exactly, and it's also, it's like, you know, even if I had a job, you're not gonna hold my hand.
I can't just constantly [00:26:00] say, Zubin Zubin help. Help me Right now. It's like I gotta help myself, man. It's correct, correct. And you who cares? Honestly, I don't care about your first job. I've said this publicly to you and Dean and everybody else. I'm like, I don't really care about your First job I kind of take for granted.
That's gonna happen. What I care about is your career because, hey, forget tech, I got laid off when I was not in tech. Layoffs have been a thing for 40 years now. It's not new, you know, it's getting a lot of attention because social media, but it's not new. And who cares about the job when you could be fired overnight?
Like, yeah. How does that help? What helps is having the skills to build a career. Yeah. And the resilience to know how to navigate the job market. No matter what the conditions of the economy are, that's what matters. Like we playing the long game here Yeah. You know? Exactly. And, and people just don't think like that.
They're so obsessed about their next job, and so thinking about, well, where's this career going and how much control can I have over it over time? You know, that's the important thing. Yeah. So question for you on on what, what you, looking back, what do you think [00:27:00] most people get wrong about learning to code that you or becoming a programmer that you learned during the program?
What, any aha moments that jump out in you? Ooh, that is a good, good question. I think a lot of people definitely get the, just jumping into code wrong. Like, I, I understand that it is the most enticing. That's, that's what I wanted to do. That, yeah, that's immediately I was like, get me in there, get me coding.
That's what I want to do, and I'm so thankful that we didn't do that. To be honest with you, there's still times now I'm like, God, I wish I could just go back and do some modular stuff. I, I wanna, I wanna step away for a second, but, but it's, it's really, yeah. It's, it's, it's sort of thinking also that that is the only thing that's going to get you ahead and it's, it's like, honestly, the, the sort of market development stuff is also so much more crucial than I would've ever.
Ever anticipated. [00:28:00] And it really does make a difference, not just for showcasing your abilities to other people in the industry, but I mean, I've just generally met some really, really great people who are more, more than willing to help in any way they can. And it's like just
you're stacking self-learning
with being able to reach out to other people
and you're creating
these connections and
it's like there's so many more facets that I don't think I really would've realized. Just jumping into it, it's,
it's not possible to know from the outside of, of, you know, you can't really know all the steps.
And, and here's the sad truth, like people keep thinking, oh, gimme some tips, or gimme, you know, can you gimme some advice?
And I'm like, I can't because when I give my students the advice and the coaching that comes after weeks of getting to know them, not. One hour, not two hours weeks of getting to know you guys, right? And getting to understand what your context is, what your lifestyle is currently, how much time you guys have, which cities you live in.
Like all this stuff adds [00:29:00] in to the, to the formula, right? If there is one. And
the sad truth is
there is no one thing that works
for everyone. In fact,
most things won't work for most people.
But something will.
And that's why we do the personal coaching thing, is to figure out what's gonna work for you.
Right, because what works for you will not work for some of the others. What works for them will not work for you. That's not the way life works, and that's not the way job markets work, right? And we have to figure it out together. And then I need to make sure that you understand so that you never need me again, right?
Which is why it gets you guys to do so many things and then bring it back to me, is to train you guys up so you never need me again, or never need anyone on that again. You're completely autonomous for the rest of your career. You know how to do this. Again, 'cause you'll need to do this again and again.
You will
need to re-skill over the next 30 years. At least three times. Yeah. You know, and now you know, tune out the noise, reduce it to the minimum effective dose. Do the market research, build a plan, refine the plan, stick it out for three times longer than you expected. Build. Build [00:30:00] it. Build your market development stuff.
Right? Yep. And that's also, yeah, no, that's also been the. The thing, the, the overarching in this whole conversation, like to circle back to some earlier stuff that we were talking about, it's just going from having no clue about anything and just fumbling around to just grabbing anything. Having that roadmap, build the psychology out.
Get, you know, get your whys out there, get some market development stuff on, like on the table. Not started yet, but it's like, Hey, start thinking about this. Start looking at what's available near you. I never would've done that on my own. I never would've done that on my own. I would've just jumped right into code and been like, I don't know how to do anything.
Like I made another weather app. It's like, and it's like, what, what do you, what do you do? What do you do with that before you join the program? You, you'd already tried and dabble for a year, right? [00:31:00] And you've only been in the program, what, four or five months or something max. Right? And in that time, you've made like five times the progress you did in the year before that because you have the structure, because you have the plan, and because you have the goals, you, you know what to, what not to do.
And that's just gonna save, you know, time. And this is what I really, really want people to understand. If anyone's listening this long,
this is what I really want you guys to understand.
There is no one path.
But there are sequence of steps that
when taken repeatedly, consistently, and
with the right goal in mind, you will make progress enough to find the path.
The path kind of reveals itself with a little bit of effort. And what folks like, say, and others have done really well is they come into the program saying, Hey, what we were trying doesn't work. But we know this is really important and it's not the money, it's not need that we need to change before careers can change.
And they really put in the work like there's so much work that needs to be done just to get ready. That's why I call it match fit, right? You have to get fit for the game you, there's a lot of training. [00:32:00] It's like people think that, oh, if I want a six packs, a six pack, all I need to do is do more crunches at the gym.
But actually that's probably the least important thing for a six pack. What really matters is reducing your body fat through diet, sleep, and, and you know, nutrtition water. You can actually not go to the gym more than twice a week and still get a six pack if you change your diet completely, not what you're thinking about.
And so it's the same thing with coding. Like it's so obvious that you think, oh, I have to learn to code, because that's what a coder does. Yeah.
You learn to code maybe somewhat, but you'll never become a software engineer unless you do all these other things.
And that's a hard pill to swallow for most people.
It's a hard, hard pill to follow. Swallow. Oh yeah. You know? Oh yeah. So look thank you for your time, but before you go what words of advice and encouragement do you have for all the people out there who are today, where you were a year or two ago? What would you tell 'em? And I'm not talk, don't, don't, you don't have, do plug for the program.
That's not, just tell them more about. Who they need to be and what they need to be thinking. Yeah, no, I, I [00:33:00] would say, you know, coming from kind of, you know, I have my own situations in life, done my own choices.
The biggest thing I could say is if you're ever contemplating like, am I good enough for this? Am I smart enough for this?
Take this step. Take this step. Just do it. Just try it.
Who cares? Who cares? At the end of the day, nobody cares. And I mean that in the best way. I mean that in the best way. Like people, people care about everyone who's listening. There are people who care about you, but at, at the end of the day, like, if anyone's gonna talk down to you, whatever, who cares?
Just go for it, man. Just go for it. You gotta, you'll never know unless you take the leap and, and that, that's probably the biggest killer for most people, is not taking that leap. So, not even, yeah. Yeah. Good. Alright, wonderful. Well thanks so much for all your time and in a few months I will probably have you back on the show when you get your first few offers.
'cause then we'll have to [00:34:00] talk about all the other things unrelated to code that when into getting those first few offers. And then how do you negotiate, how do you choose one? So, you know, I look forward to that day. Continue. Fantastic work that you're doing. Continue the focus. You know, and I'll, I'll see you e every week as I normally do on, on the accountability stuff.
But thanks for your time, man. Awesome. Of course, Dubin. Thank you for having me on here. I really appreciate it too. It's good seeing you as always. You too, my friend. Alright, bye. Catch you later. See you.
[00:34:26] outro
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